Florida Board of Professional Engineers June 2010
Transcript Excerpts (Full Transcript)
>>>>> BEFORE THE PUBLIC SPOKE >>>>>>>>>>>
Page 8
Chairman Burke
25 And then the question is, does
Chairman Burke
25 And then the question is, does
Page 9
Chairman Burke
1 the guy that measures the voltage at the end of that
2 wire have to be an engineer? No. Absolutely not.
3 Does the guy that measures the CFM coming out of an air
4 vent air conditioning system have to be a licensed
5 engineer? No.
6 However, as soon as you get into those duties part
7 of commissioning, it's engineering by our definitions.
8 You darn well better be licensed. If they work for a
9 firm, they better have a certificate of authorization,
10 and I'm not trying to sway any of you in one direction
11 or another, but that's -- that's what we're dealing
12 with today, and that's what you're going to be hearing,
13 and hopefully, we can end this thing today and go on
14 with other things.
Chairman Burke
1 the guy that measures the voltage at the end of that
2 wire have to be an engineer? No. Absolutely not.
3 Does the guy that measures the CFM coming out of an air
4 vent air conditioning system have to be a licensed
5 engineer? No.
6 However, as soon as you get into those duties part
7 of commissioning, it's engineering by our definitions.
8 You darn well better be licensed. If they work for a
9 firm, they better have a certificate of authorization,
10 and I'm not trying to sway any of you in one direction
11 or another, but that's -- that's what we're dealing
12 with today, and that's what you're going to be hearing,
13 and hopefully, we can end this thing today and go on
14 with other things.
>>>>> AFTER THE PUBLIC SPOKE >>>>>>>>>>>
Page 33
Chairman Burke
12 If you see by our definitions anyone in the
13 commissioning process practicing engineering by our
14 definitions, file a complaint with this board.
15 Mr. Rimes here will be glad to do the investigation and
16 prosecute them if that's the case. I mean, we've
17 gone -- that's the way I see it. I think our rules
18 cover everything you've talked about here today.
19 You've just got to apply them.
Chairman Burke
12 If you see by our definitions anyone in the
13 commissioning process practicing engineering by our
14 definitions, file a complaint with this board.
15 Mr. Rimes here will be glad to do the investigation and
16 prosecute them if that's the case. I mean, we've
17 gone -- that's the way I see it. I think our rules
18 cover everything you've talked about here today.
19 You've just got to apply them.
Page 34
Chairman Burke
7 There are definitely parts. I mean, you've talked
8 about the commissioning. A lot of it is engineering,
9 and people practicing it all and don't have a license
10 should be charged with unlicensed activity. Those
11 firms that are doing it should have a certificate of
12 authorization if they're doing engineering according to
13 our definitions, 471 and 61G-15.
Chairman Burke
7 There are definitely parts. I mean, you've talked
8 about the commissioning. A lot of it is engineering,
9 and people practicing it all and don't have a license
10 should be charged with unlicensed activity. Those
11 firms that are doing it should have a certificate of
12 authorization if they're doing engineering according to
13 our definitions, 471 and 61G-15.
Page 36
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
2 MR. HAHN: I'm -- I am looking at the rule, and
3 it's 471.005, Paragraph 7, and it indicates the
4 inspection of construction for the purpose of
5 determining in general if the work is proceeding in
6 compliance with the drawings and specifications. You
7 have to be an engineer to do that according to the
8 rules, and as our chairman said, if you are doing this
9 and you're not an engineer, then I would expect to have
10 a great deal of complaints about this because you, in
11 fact, are practicing engineering.
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
2 MR. HAHN: I'm -- I am looking at the rule, and
3 it's 471.005, Paragraph 7, and it indicates the
4 inspection of construction for the purpose of
5 determining in general if the work is proceeding in
6 compliance with the drawings and specifications. You
7 have to be an engineer to do that according to the
8 rules, and as our chairman said, if you are doing this
9 and you're not an engineer, then I would expect to have
10 a great deal of complaints about this because you, in
11 fact, are practicing engineering.
Page 37
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
19 MR. HAHN: Well, I think looking at the statutes
20 and the rules that -- as I said before, in reading it
21 it's the inspection of construction for the purposes of
22 determining in general if the work is proceeding in
23 compliance with the drawings, and if you're doing that,
24 you're practicing engineering, and you should be a PE.
25 Now if you are doing that and you're not a PE,
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
19 MR. HAHN: Well, I think looking at the statutes
20 and the rules that -- as I said before, in reading it
21 it's the inspection of construction for the purposes of
22 determining in general if the work is proceeding in
23 compliance with the drawings, and if you're doing that,
24 you're practicing engineering, and you should be a PE.
25 Now if you are doing that and you're not a PE,
Page 38
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
1 then I think you can have a complaint filed against
2 you. I think it's as simple as that.
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
1 then I think you can have a complaint filed against
2 you. I think it's as simple as that.
Page 38
Chairman Burke.
4 I just want to make something clear. Two or
5 three you have referred to if this passed. There isn't
6 anything to pass. We keep talking like we're
7 entertaining a rule to pass. I know you're requesting
8 it, but there's nothing to pass here.
9 We feel, this board -- I think I may be
10 speaking -- at least, I feel we have rules in place to
11 take care of every concern that's been discussed out
12 here today, and I don't think this board has any
13 intention to go to rules committee and write a new
14 rule.
Chairman Burke.
4 I just want to make something clear. Two or
5 three you have referred to if this passed. There isn't
6 anything to pass. We keep talking like we're
7 entertaining a rule to pass. I know you're requesting
8 it, but there's nothing to pass here.
9 We feel, this board -- I think I may be
10 speaking -- at least, I feel we have rules in place to
11 take care of every concern that's been discussed out
12 here today, and I don't think this board has any
13 intention to go to rules committee and write a new
14 rule.
Page 39
13 MR. HAHN: I think I clearly understand the
14 industry. I've been in it for 40 years in air
15 conditioning and in electrical, worked with probably
16 every person in this room on a project at one time or
17 another, and I can only cite what the rules say, and if
18 you are practicing in violation of these rules, then
19 you should have a complaint filed against you, and I
20 don't know that we need any further clarification than
21 that.
13 MR. HAHN: I think I clearly understand the
14 industry. I've been in it for 40 years in air
15 conditioning and in electrical, worked with probably
16 every person in this room on a project at one time or
17 another, and I can only cite what the rules say, and if
18 you are practicing in violation of these rules, then
19 you should have a complaint filed against you, and I
20 don't know that we need any further clarification than
21 that.
Page 43
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
18 MR. HAHN: I have one more comment. It would seem
19 to me if this were to be brought to a head, the easiest
20 way to do it is if any of you out there see a violation
21 of what is being practiced as an engineer in the
22 definition of the statute, which I referenced before,
23 that you would bring a complaint to the board, and it
24 would be reviewed, and if upheld, you'd have a pretty
25 good answer of what is required of a commissioning
Chairperson Mr. Hahn
18 MR. HAHN: I have one more comment. It would seem
19 to me if this were to be brought to a head, the easiest
20 way to do it is if any of you out there see a violation
21 of what is being practiced as an engineer in the
22 definition of the statute, which I referenced before,
23 that you would bring a complaint to the board, and it
24 would be reviewed, and if upheld, you'd have a pretty
25 good answer of what is required of a commissioning
The following excerpt is from the meeting minutes:
June 16, 2010 - "After conclusion of the discussion, the Board determined Chapter 471, F.S. and Chapter 61G15- addresses these types of situations as it defines what is considered engineering and what is considered under the EOR’s responsible charge. The Board did not determine any further action would be necessary. They encourage those parties concerned with possible unlicensed practice of engineering to file complaints. Through the complaint process any unlicensed practice of engineering would be addressed."
